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Is Porn negating the Social benefits of Furry Fandom? 
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According to this article in Psychology Today, furry fans actually benefit greatly socially from their participation in furry fandom (a popular article that has been sweeping the furry community lately).

Another Peer Reviewed periodical, produced for the National Association of Social Workers back in 2015, basically states the same thing. Basically, furry fans rely greatly on and derive much benefit from social interaction within furry fandom. This article was entitled Clinical Interaction with Anthropomorphic Phenomenon: Notes for Health Professionals about Interacting with Clients Who Possess This Unusual Identity by Sharon E. Roberts, Courtney Plante, Kathleen Gerbasi, and Stephen Reysen.

Yet, according to several studies, pornography use actually prevents human beings from developing socially. Here are some links to illustrate my point.

The great porn experiment | Gary Wilson | TEDxGlasgow

Why I stopped watching porn | Ran Gavrieli | TEDxJaffa

Pornography Isn't Your Problem | Jason Mahr | TEDxCincinnati

Neuroscience has proved that porn is literally making men’s brains more childish. Seriously.

Hijacking the Brain — How Pornography Works

Here is a question to think about: Is furry porn negating or limiting the social benefits furry fans claim they receive from participation in furry fandom?

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Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:10 pm
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I think that porn is the major reason that the furry fandom is looked down upon by society ("furries ruin everything"). It'd be nice to be able to look up furry art without adult content popping up on a simple google search, or go to a con without there being inappropriate touching, trashed rooms/convention spaces, etc. Unfortunately deviancy is ingrained in the fandom, and it's there to stay - at least until people within the fandom stop tolerating it; but tolerance of deviation is one of the hallmarks of the furry fandom, so change is unlikely.


Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:06 am
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I think pornography is a terrible thing but I wouldn't say it's necessarily negating the benefits of the fandom. Pornography isn't an integral part of the fandom for a lot, but I did meet a guy at my university once who described furry porn as an "important and artistic exploration of sexuality", so it's unfortunately important for some at least.
Porn does tend to ruin everything it touches but I don't think the existence of furry porn makes all the good contributions from the fandom meaningless. Just like I don't think it'd be fair to stop watching any movies at all because too many of them have gratuitous sex scenes.

Also shadow this is kinda off topic but have you ever checked out the organization Fight The New Drug? They post a lot of articles and stuff of personal anecdotes, scientific studies, and other things pertaining to the potential dangers of pornography. i think you might like it

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:02 pm
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Koshka wrote:
I think pornography is a terrible thing but I wouldn't say it's necessarily negating the benefits of the fandom. Pornography isn't an integral part of the fandom for a lot...


Small candles shining in the darkness that has descended upon Zootopia. Without them, the smog of perdition would have asphyxiated furry fandom a long time ago.

Koshka wrote:
I think pornography is a terrible thing but I wouldn't say it's necessarily negating the benefits of the fandom. Pornography isn't an integral part of the fandom for a lot, but I did meet a guy at my university once who described furry porn as an "important and artistic exploration of sexuality", so it's unfortunately important for some at least.


The problem is that pornography does not express the reality of a person's sexuality. Rather, as Ran Gavrieli stated in his video above, it expresses a twisted vision of the world. Historians have documented the use of pornography as propaganda, particularly in the French Revolution, and it has been a form of mass market propaganda ever since Hugh Hefner stated his desire to illustrate Alfred Kinsey's Sexual Behavior in the Human Male: a book that he often referred to as influential in the creation of the Playboy Philosophy (see 1:35:00 in the documentary linked in this sentence).

Koshka wrote:
Also shadow this is kinda off topic but have you ever checked out the organization Fight The New Drug? They post a lot of articles and stuff of personal anecdotes, scientific studies, and other things pertaining to the potential dangers of pornography. i think you might like it


I have heard of them, and they came to my University last spring. With your permission, I will post a link to their website. With wonderful suggestions like this, you may end up a member of the Shadow's legion against crime.

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:29 pm
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I doubt it has an effect on benefits from joining the fandom. People who partake in furry porn, if they weren't furries, would be partaking in non-furry porn, which has the same effects.

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:24 pm
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Sleet wrote:
I doubt it has an effect on benefits from joining the fandom. People who partake in furry porn, if they weren't furries, would be partaking in non-furry porn, which has the same effects.


Then you agree that those who do partake of furry porn would receive a greater benefit from the fandom by abstaining from it (as would the rest of society)?

Still, you cannot deny that the behavior and actions of those who do partake in furry porn has not affected those who do not. Unless there is some magical furry convention, gallery, or message board where furry porn does not exist or has never been discussed that I don't know about.

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Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:08 pm
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Well at most furry conventions porn is purely opt-in and you don't have to see it if you don't choose to, and at least this message board doesn't have any!

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Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:12 am
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Sleet wrote:
Well at most furry conventions porn is purely opt-in and you don't have to see it if you don't choose to, and at least this message board doesn't have any!


That's true, but you do have people here who struggle with an addiction to porn and behaviors that stem from it. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that there is a problem with furry fandom (which has proven to be a good thing for many people) or that the porn stems directly from the "furry" genre. Rather, that it is an hindering element in the lives of many furry fans and an unnecessary element toward enjoying the anthropomorphic genre.

It's also true that conventions have gotten better at keeping the porn out of the public's eye. In the past, the rules of keeping the adult material out of sight of minors was not so careful. That only applies to the dealers who attend, but not to the behavior of individuals at the convention whose fantasy lives sometimes revolve around the images they procure. What happens when life begins publicly imitating the images celebrated in the porn? Is there an opt-in for that, as well? Probably not, but you can't fault the fandom for the anti-social behavior of individuals. Still, such behavior has ruined a lot of conventions for attendees in the past and caused a lot of drama on the internet.

Economically, you still pay a fee to attend a convention that provides a marketplace for those dealers who sell porn. Indirectly, con-goers are benefiting from a venue that makes money from dealers who sell porn and other adult-only oriented items. But, conventions are also opt-in venues, as well. You don't have to go to them.

The last Furry convention, that I personally recall, that didn't allow furry porn was C-ACE. It didn't last very long and not that many people attended. It was probably the last time anthro and furry fans attempted to hold a shared convention.

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Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:09 pm
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I think it only negates the social benefits if you're one that doesn't like the porn. Furry, as well as other fandoms, tends to be made up of people who've felt like outsiders most of their lives, and some of that maybe because of odd fetishes and here's a group of people that accept me and my kinks openly. If you're one who's drawn to the fandom because of your love of Zootopia, but are turned off by the porn, then you may end up feeling like a misfit within a group of misfits, which doesn't solve the issue of always feeling like the odd man out.


Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:12 pm
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thebrownbunny wrote:
I think it only negates the social benefits if you're one that doesn't like the porn.


I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. According to the literature above, porn has been shown to have caused problems in society in general (not just furry fandom). It prevents people from developing proper social skills, distorts their vision about how relationships function and work, and porn addiction has been shown to impair cognitive functioning. The situations and actions portrayed and celebrated in pornography are not a reflection of real life. Real relationships and sex do not function in the way pornography portrays it (whether a person has a fetish or not). Porn imagery often celebrates antisocial behavior and criminality in the context of an action that (at least for human beings) has developed as a means of strengthening the bonds between two people. Porn often aids in the destruction of these social bonds. Also, pornography has been linked to organized crime, prostitution, and human trafficking; which is particularly alarming when it involves children. It doesn't matter whether furry porn depicts real people or not, it's still a contributing element to the porn culture and most always reflects the real life imagery. The psychological studies cited above have shown that furry fans benefit psychologically and develop social skills from being in the fandom. Yet, it seems that pornography has been proven to negate such benefits.

thebrownbunny wrote:
Furry, as well as other fandoms, tends to be made up of people who've felt like outsiders most of their lives, and some of that maybe because of odd fetishes and here's a group of people that accept me and my kinks openly.


I have to ask... Who made this a rule for "fandoms?" Last I looked, bondage bob was not walking around at Disney pin trading night or at the latest Fighters baseball game. I've heard this statement since the 1990's. I probably know who was the first to coin it and use it (although I won't name names). It seems that it's about time such statements were questioned, don't you think?

Once again, I must point out a contradiction. Pornography is a mainstream phenomenon in American and Western culture, and has been since Hugh Hefner began to glorify the porn aesthetic/culture in 1953. Starting about the time of the Clinton administration, internet pornography skyrocketed and now it's everywhere. Like it or not, it has become a facet of society. If a person is into pornography, then they are into something that is currently mainstream. This is not an "outsider" phenomena. It's definitely "normie" culture. Given that pornography 1) is a part of a society from which one has been made to feel like an outcast, and 2) is such a significant influence on society that it promotes a distorted view of life and social skills that causes people to feel isolated and neglected; then wouldn't it follow that furry fans would want to reject the very cultural milieu which exists at present? I would think, given the current social mindedness, that exists within the younger generation of furry fans, that there should be some questioning of the existence of pornography within furry fandom. Why should the new fandom be tied down to what the 80's and 90's generation decided furry fandom should be. A person can't call themselves an outsider if they are engrossed in the popular social milieu of porn culture. They also can't complain about being rejected when the very "popular" culture that rejects them creates and promotes something which contributes to the rejection and social isolation of individuals.

As for fetishes, one needs to ask oneself: is it the fetish leading the porn or is the porn leading the fetish? I guarantee many people will tell you their "fetish" developed after encountering pornography and not the other way around. It seems to me the fetish community you are describing is one defined by porn culture, and not by the anthropomorphic genre.

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Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:31 pm
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Ah, maybe I didn't use the right wording or misinterpeted your question. In regards to porn, I was speaking about the fandom's attitude twoards it and how a dissenting opinion may negatively affect your social standing within it. Ever hear of these guys?
http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Burned_Furs I agree with the studies, but people who are okay with it would probably just dismiss them, peer reviewed or not. As for who made up that rule about fandoms? I dunno. Good question. I've always defined fandoms as "I like X, you like X, let's hang out and talk about how great X is together." Maybe people don't want to exclude anyone and conflate setting standards of behavior and tact with intolerance.


Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:39 am
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thebrownbunny wrote:
Ah, maybe I didn't use the right wording or misinterpeted your question. In regards to porn, I was speaking about the fandom's attitude twoards it and how a dissenting opinion may negatively affect your social standing within it.


To quote some random guy on the internet, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." You have proven my point very eloquently.

thebrownbunny wrote:
Ever hear of these guys? http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Burned_Furs


Yes... I was around when Blumrich, Trotman, Schorn and the others formed that group. Trotman and Blumrich thought they could use the Marxist tactics, they were interested in, to push the "lifestylers" out of the fandom. Blumrich left furry fandom to campaign for the left (creating a website against George Bush) after his falling out with Schorn over 9-11 (an incident I witnessed personally on Yerf.Yap). He still has a twitter account where he regularly retweets messages from the U.S. Communist party. Trotman supposedly ended up recanting her remarks, but I don't know if that is true. This is old history for me. Kind of ironic how it was the left wing faction of furry that was trying to push the lifestylers out in the 1990's. It's supposedly flipped around to the other side, hasn't it? This is why I try to avoid mixing politics with my hobbies. I like being like Switzerland... free and neutral. :lol:

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:22 pm
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Hmm... let's start from the original claim: if porn would be negating the social benefits of the fandom, there would have been no data supporting the Psychology Today and NASW articles because the social benefits wouldn't have been measurable. So at most it can be limiting the social benefits.

A major part of science is literature research, so I checked out the two written articles (I have neither the time nor the attention span for videos.) Both of these articles are not actual scientific texts, they merely claim that there are some scientific sources that serve as a basis for their conclusions, but there is no actual reference to any published paper. (To be fair, the second article links to a book, but it reads as an ad for said book, not as a research paper.)

I don't see any material in those two articles to rigidly support the claims that porn prevents humans (well... men.. the articles barely, if at all, take into account women) from developing socially. Add to this that both authors published their articles on sites that fundamentally oppose pornography (checking where authors stand in their field is also an important literature research technique.) That doesn't mean there is no validity to the claim, just that the chance is negligible that these articles contain it.

Given enough scientific papers, it would not surprise me at all if someone could come up with proof that the moon is made of cheese. Science is not the fountain of Truth that some people seem to portray it as. Plenty of it is barely fit for use as toilet paper.. There's also a lot of good stuff, but discerning between the two often needs a specialist in that specific field.

I've got more to post about the actual subject, but that's something for another time. I need to catch up on my sleep, haven't been getting nearly enough this past month.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:15 pm
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Tayi wrote:
Hmm... let's start from the original claim: if porn would be negating the social benefits of the fandom, there would have been no data supporting the Psychology Today and NASW articles because the social benefits wouldn't have been measurable.


The NASW article does list that furry fans are apt to experience an additional level of distress due to the perceived stigma of being in furry fandom. It states that this distress stems directly from furry fandom's association with being a sexual fetish. It also acknowledges that more studies need to be done on the fandom, but the point of the article is to make therapists aware of the phenomenon so as make sure that furries under psychological distress will receive the proper treatment they need. The NASW found that furries, who felt that their therapists, who dismissed or did not acknowledge their involvement in furry fandom as a real phenomena, were likely to not return for treatment.

Tayi wrote:
So at most it can be limiting the social benefits.


That's what I've been saying. It's certainly not helping to increase the social benefits.

Tayi wrote:
..but there is no actual reference to any published paper. (To be fair, the second article links to a book, but it reads as an ad for said book, not as a research paper.)


All of these periodicals were linked by Matt Fradd in the articles at the link (to name a few). You may need access to a University Library to view some of them though. To be honest, I should have been more specific to mention that there are other articles to explore at the link. It is a blog link after all.

http://www.fincham.info/papers/2012-porn.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20039112
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11995598
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract

In his defense, Matt Fradd can be pretty solid with his research. Here is his website: The Porn Effect.

Tayi wrote:
(well... men.. the articles barely, if at all, take into account women)


Matt Fradd's articles are extremely pro-women. Read the rest of the articles at the link by scrolling down further. Also, the videos that you didn't watched were also pro-women and concerned with the safety of children. Statistically, it has been shown that women also struggle with porn addiction..

Tayi wrote:
Given enough scientific papers, it would not surprise me at all if someone could come up with proof that the moon is made of cheese. Science is not the fountain of Truth that some people seem to portray it as. Plenty of it is barely fit for use as toilet paper.. There's also a lot of good stuff, but discerning between the two often needs a specialist in that specific field..


This really sounds like you've negated your own statements. Since the links in the original post were offered as examples and not scientific fact, it's neither here nor there. But, since source material has been merely regulated to subjective toilette paper, it wouldn't have mattered what was posted anyway.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:01 pm
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"You have proven my point very eloquently" Hey, I don't like the fandom's "no criticism allowed" attitude either. I feel it's what has caused all of the problems we see today. I tend to not go out of my way to make trouble, but when I feel an issue needs to be addressed, I usually don't shy away from an unpopular opinion.


Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:39 am
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thebrownbunny wrote:
"You have proven my point very eloquently" Hey, I don't like the fandom's "no criticism allowed" attitude either. I feel it's what has caused all of the problems we see today. I tend to not go out of my way to make trouble, but when I feel an issue needs to be addressed, I usually don't shy away from an unpopular opinion.
I think that's definitely a good policy.

Its acceptance is one of the greatest strengths and weaknesses of the fandom.

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:53 pm
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Sleet wrote:
thebrownbunny wrote:
"You have proven my point very eloquently" Hey, I don't like the fandom's "no criticism allowed" attitude either. I feel it's what has caused all of the problems we see today. I tend to not go out of my way to make trouble, but when I feel an issue needs to be addressed, I usually don't shy away from an unpopular opinion.
I think that's definitely a good policy.

Its acceptance is one of the greatest strengths and weaknesses of the fandom.


I agree. That is a good policy to have. The problem with groups like the Burned Furs is that they tried to create a popular movement to force everyone that they didn't like out (including Christian furries). Such a strategy was doomed to fail, and somewhat half baked. They forgot that furry fandom (if there ever really was one) was not their own personal kingdom, and they had no popular standing or platform in a decentralized popular movement (among anthro fans). Even among themselves, they couldn't agree on what they stood for. That sort of strategy doesn't work. Anyone seeking to change any important issue should take a note from St. Paul. It doesn't matter if one is Christian or not. The man was a genius (even before his conversion experience).

You can't force people to change or accept an idea. Rather, you can only reach out to someone, and hope what you say is enough for them to make the decision to change their own hearts and minds. It's the same with missionary work. Many people forget that conversions are made by God and not by preachers, ministers, or even Christians. The best anyone can do (whether their Christian or not) is to present their case, and hope that someone listens.

I hope everyone understands that the point of my topic was just to make people think about an issue and nothing more. So many things in furry fandom have been around for long enough, that younger furries are not old enough to remember when or why they started. Wikifur is an interesting resource, but in no way accounts for everything that happened in the past. For example, the divide over the presence of the adult side of the fandom was regional: West coast furry fans were more open to it while East coast furry fans were not. Anthrocon gained in popularity basically because it was originally patronized by East coast fans. Without this knowledge it's hard to understand why Samuel Conway kept such a tight ship when it comes to security and media outreach. Many east coast "Anthro" fans either left furry fandom early on or never participated in it in the first place (choosing to continue to go to Sci-fi/ fantasy conventions or mingle with their own circle of friends). The same phenomena happened in the Art world between the old Abstract Expressionists (east coast) and the Pop Art movement (west coast).

It's most likely a good thing for the fandom to question it's origins, activities, and traditions... especially in the context of the larger society that fans live in. That's the only way anyone can grow in this world.

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:02 pm
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Well porn certainly didn't help this guy's experience with the furry fandom, that's for sure.

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Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:16 pm
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